Dropping acid all throughout high school then going to a liberal arts college. duncan had it made.

I agree with opt out. We have a dismally failing educational society. Khan Academy lessons are okay but education shouldn't be a commodity. Socrates would have called higher education intellectual prostitution.

Anyway, I did my undergrad at Amherst and think I got a lot out of it because I went on scholarship, and learned lots more OUTSIDE the classroom. Western Mass is a good area as they have 5 colleges and a hippy school called Hampshire College.

I also began an MA in philosophy concentrating on Wottgenstein, Russell and the transition from modernity to Post-modernity and the existential crisis we face. however, I had a fiery argument with a woman professor (prominenet atheist who i will not name) and lost my scholarship and worked until on a whim I took the LSAT and go into a few schools and found my self back on Boston as a JD candidate, where I am now.

For 90% of ppl, it's undergrad (apart from of you're going to Ivy) it's because "you'll look like a loser with no education from your friends" which is so stupid. But much propaganda (like Olive Garden commercials) put pressure on families to compel them to school. For the Ivy, it's about meeting people. I think anywhere really but especially Harvard.

I was there on fellowship and it's all networking. The classes are easy because students ate already doing great work OUTSIDE the classroom, where it counts. You catch a glimpse in Social Network movie.

If I could go back, I would have gone to a trade high school where at least I could fix my car or craft things and sell them, etc..just so I could make art and not deal with hassle of calling AAA for a towtruck.

And I would be like this brilliant high school kid I knew when I taught at Amherst and study, learn as many languages as you can! I would've loved to gone to a proper French immersion school, or the other elite schools and prep schools, but you can't say it would've been better because I feel very happy.

Thoughts?
B

There are some interesting anecdotes in here, that's for sure.

I am going back to University as a 27 year old. Part of the application process for my program is a formal letter that describes what I've been doing since I dropped out of my undergraduate program, where I am heading in life, etc.

I have been chipping away at my letter in WritingRoom, basically trying to keep it as pasteurized as possible. I feel like a big reason that I wasn't successful the first time around was because I wasn't willing to play the game. I was blatantly ignoring papers that I found to be a waste of my time, and I blew the fucking top off ones that compelled me to learn. Eventually, my grades sunk low enough that I no longer qualified for the critical $, and I just sort of wilted under the financial pressure. Just a fucking caricature of a punk douche with a false sense of entitlement.

In high school, teachers pulled me aside and gave me the "I get your deal, kid," we would come up with some arrangement on how I could direct my enthusiasm. In University this simply was not the case, and I just fuckin' faiiiiiiled. I felt a complete and total disconnect from my profs, like I might as well have been watching lectures on TV. Was this the case for anyone else?

I am trying to come up with a plan of attack for round 2. At this stage in my life, I am much more organized, I am fitter, I am eating healthier, etc. Should I simply stick to the course outline and pander to their expectations? What was your plan of attack as you completed your degree? Were you successful?

M0XIE said:

If you have finished your degree(s), how would you describe the experience, looking back?

The social aspect was positive. The classes and degree (Civil Engineering) - which I was never very engaged in, just enough to get by - took me too long to complete. Although it's enabled me to get a pretty nice gig and created a series of solid opportunities for me. Looking back, I remember being milked for money, to jump through a series of hoops, to obtain a piece of paper, for employers to take me seriously. It's all so silly, but part of the game.

if you're interested in actually learning things and becoming well-educated... formal education isn't required.

if you're interested in playing the game of life, climbing ladders, working a 9-5, having benefits and comfort, and a job that slowly sucks away at your soul.... go for it.

I went to college and I think it's a fun way to learn. I don't use my degree for my career or anything...so i could have done without wasting thousands of dollars. The school I went to was mostly an open admissions arts school so it wasn't as structured and strict as a school that is for doctors or lawyers or that kind of thing. If I could afford to I would still take one class a semester just for fun....but like @fnord just said you can keep learning on your own.

Did any of you form life-long friendships over the course of your post-secondary career? That is another aspect of school that I find very important. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not easy to find places to put myself around like-minded people.

I think public school / proper homeschooling still holds an important place. College less so, in my opinion.

fnord said:

if you're interested in actually learning things and becoming well-educated... formal education isn't required.

if you're interested in playing the game of life, climbing ladders, working a 9-5, having benefits and comfort, and a job that slowly sucks away at your soul.... go for it.

THIS. I went to college, hoping to become enthralled with learning from educated people. I took classes I thought would be interesting only to be massively disappointed. I learned more outside of the classroom amongst my peers than I did from professors. But, if you want a job, most people will toss your resume if you don't have at least a little piece of paper that says you're qualified to do the job that they are going to retrain you to do anyway.

(side note: Today I interviewed at a golf course for a server job and the guy kept asking me these vague fucking questions, such as, "What do you think it takes to be a professional?" or "What are some things you do well and what are some things you'd like to improve on, professionally?" I said, "Uhhhhhhhhh...hang on, I've got another call." and hung up.)

I do think the current education system could be vastly improved, too. There are SOO many better things we could be learning and benefiting from. Maybe some classes emphasizing current events, meditation, technological advancements, how the government has fucked you, alternative history, etc. I go to my classes usually trying to ignore this fact cause I think it'll just weigh me down.

Well, I just submitted my formal application as a transfer student. I wish you all luck in whatever direction you've chosen in life.

Life is the best teacher.
College is great if you go to learn stuff...not just to leave with a degree & hope to get a job...that's the wrong attitude IMO.
Colleges isn't for everyone...if you want to learn, get educated, and I think the goal is to leave "knowing stuff"...not just the diploma.
Get a job, learn a trade, get good at something you like...
I think college can be an escape for alot of people...in fact some people can leave college without ever really working with other people...how strange is that...if you started at 18, and worked a few years, you have 4 years of practical experience and you can determine what you like and don't like about different types of jobs.
I went to college for 2 years, but couldn't afford to continue...all told, I guess I ended up in a pretty good place...almost 9 years, and I'm home before 5, and have my nights weekends to play with the kids...its my path...works for me.
LEARN something tho'...read a book. Read, ask questions...evolve. It doesn't have to be taught in a class to be worthwhile.

I would love to shit on formal education, but it's definitely given me a chance to be where I'm at today. Not to say it can't be better... Or that time can't be better spent. It depends mostly on the individual, their intelligence and ambition at a young age. And their career interest, obviously. For instance, you straight up can't become a structural engineer without schooling.

Formal education has its advantages, and obviously it has its downsides as well.

I think saying that its outdated is a little extreme, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

...which brings me to my next point. Formal education is a wonderful forum for learning to interact with others, and learning to accept diversity of thought. Is it the ONLY forum for that? Obviously not, as we're all sitting here on a message board--another good forum for that sort of thing. But personally, I was enriched by my schooling because I went to a college that was different from my hometown, with a wider spectrum of people, values, opinions. I was living among others who were quite different than me in terms of background and philosophy, and I became better for it.

Additionally, I think formal education teaches a degree of discipline and accountability that is quite important to learn when you're 18, 19, etc. You are, largely, on your own--and you have to balance your time and energy accordingly. Again, there are other ways to learn this (like simply starting to work full time at a job), but nonetheless, it is something else positive that is offered by the formal college experience. Many people--myself included--enjoyed the structure.

And, of course, you're exposed to a number of different subjects that you might not otherwise think to study. You're also exposed to experts on the subjects. These aren't just people on message boards. These are professors and teachers who have devoted their lives to studying a certain subject or philosophy. To be able to shoot the breeze with them is incredibly rewarding. Once I got out in "the real world," I realized just how wonderful it was to have had such easy access to so many great minds. I miss that greatly now.

My opinion is that it simply sucks. It felt like a big game of who can remember facts better. Tests, they attempt to trick you, how is that helpful? I hated school and found it boring.

I think...
A) Most people go to school to LEARN TO DO A CAREER- scientist, computer programmer, physicist, journalism, etc.
B) Very few people go to school to LEARN TO THINK and function for themselves in an insanely complicated world where concepts like right/wrong better/worse are anachronisms.

I believe if you choose your school wisely, college can be great for B. I got 2 degrees (philosophy and religion) with about 4 minors from Indiana University (sociology, film, history, cognitive science) and while I don't use my degree in my job (writing or the one that pays the bills) it was invaluable to developing my approach towards the world and opening me up to new information. Of course, I hung around IU until they literally said "hey buddy, no more student loan cash for you- you have 2 and a half times more credits than you need to graduate- get lost" so maybe I'm not the best one go give advice on this subject.

I think college sucks for A, unless, as mentioned by others- you are training to be a drone.
Oh, and if you go into marketing- either to study or as a career. Kill yourself. (Thank you Bill Hicks)

It depends a lot on the school and class and professor (no shit!!)

I've had awesome classes where I get to learn lots of new things and apply them immediately for tangible results and feedback. I've had classes where the professor bumbles through a powerpoint slideshow and tests us using SCANTRON multiple choice exams.

I like it here. My major has us making a new game in progressively more powerful and interesting environments every semester/year. Lots of fun and creativity.

i'm messi

Never let schooling get in the way of your education.

Though I'm not formally educated, I have worked in as a professional environment in a few different roles(marketing specialist, production artist, and copywriter), and in general, I've never felt that I was below my coworkers, who are almost all college educated, in intelligence, skill, talent or knowledge.

Having worked with and competed against the college educated, some of which graduated from highly competitive universities, I've seen a wide range of people, some I consider educated and smart, and a lot I consider educated and not impressively smart.

Because college, and even good colleges due to socioeconomic factors, graduate so many not smart and unknowledgeable people, I'm simply not impressed by the label.

But, has the lack of a college degree hurt my career options? Absolutely.

If it weren't for the fact that I'm currently a creative, who is judged solely on their portfolio for hire, I would have gone back to get a college degree a few years ago, but not because I need it for knowledge, because I need it for appearances.

Despite my anti formal education stance, I actually do plan to go back to college, when I move to New York. I'm going to enroll in a part-time general studies degree program at The New School, so I can study exactly what want. I want the safety of a degree for the future(damn society for making me have to do this).

Finest Graduation Speech Ever Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Indoctrination Schooling

http://youtu.be/LD17aDBVhX8

Good to hear @M0XIE !
Be sure to keep us updated.

A few people have said this already but formal education definitely isn't for everyone, and it depends on what your goals are. If you're 100% sure what job you want and it's not in academia, you can probably get there by your own path. Otherwise, university can be a good place to surround yourself with smart people that will intellectually kick your ass and make you a better person.

For me, I deliberated a lot, finally found a program I liked and fell in love with it. After undergrad I left the country in order to reset and refocus on what exactly I wanted out of life. Now, a few years later, I'm considering going back for my PhD. This is where winning the lottery would really come in handy :)

first day of junior year of high school today. just got home and im all ready to jump out my window.(jk, i have a quarter to smoke through, before i do that). what can i do to rebel? cant stand the monotony of memorization. feel drained and desperate for escape. i learned more from the tim leary book i dragged with all day, and looked like a wierdo reading; than i did from listening to all of these psychos babble for an hour at a time. helllpppppp