Ego-checks

LDShaw

I have no problem recognizing the times I feel my ego flare up. In fact, I enjoy catching myself and correcting the behavior; it feels reallllly good. So why does it burn so bad when someone else does it for me? I feel like I'm owning this bitch lately, so why does it drive me nuts when another person beats me to it? It should feel just as good! Bahhh, so frustrating.

hce

The thing that is "catching" the ego is still the ego. It's chasing its tail.

FuncanDussellTramily

I think for me it's immediately knowing that I hadn't kept myself in check. Wandering far enough that somebody else has to put me in check provides some extra sting to the wound.

josephkiddy

hce said:
The thing that is "catching" the ego is still the ego. It's chasing its tail.

you have just blown my mind and changed my life in a sentence thank you

Mr_Marijuana

Isn't 'catching' and correcting the ego a way to control or eliminate it?

2na

I find myself catching my ego all the time, usually it’s out of some dumb meat body urge to try to and impress people.

Gotta let that stuff go, you try to please everyone you end up pleasing noone, lease of all yourself right?

hce · Post edited by hce at 2012-08-15 20:25:31

Mr_Marijuana said:
Isn't 'catching' and correcting the ego a way to control or eliminate it?

What is catching the ego? The ego is putting on a new set of clothes and pretending to be your friend. It's coming in disguise.

Ego says, "Aha! I've caught on to the tricks of the ego!" and we think we're making progress. What's really happening is the ego is just shifting its shape and fooling us again. Even this "I've caught on to the ego!" thought must also be seen through.

Trying to find the correct thoughts that will free you from ego is like trying to find the correct set of words to write on a chalkboard that will make the chalkboard erase. It just doesn't work that way.

What wants to get rid of ego? Ego says "I want", so what is the thought "I want to get rid of the ego"?

2na

@hce

Very True! It’s like you need to zoom out a bit and see what your ego or obsessions are, because they are always changing and evolving as you do.

I feel like I’m learning, everything is a little spiritual lesson if you are willing to listen.

Cleziact

"Ego is the false notion that there is somebody here who can or needs to do something, which is delusion in itself. Based on this delusion, you then want to destroy the delusion that wants to destroy something. Since it's all delusion all the time, it just plays out in it's own delusional way and has nothing to do with anything real.

There is a presence, and it's intelligent, and it's expressing in the form of thoughts, most of which are total nonsense, but this isn't hidden from the presence that you are, it just needs to be looked at honestly without any agenda.

Figure out what the truth of the matter is even if it kills you. Yeah, it might."

thought this was groovy
I read this on a comment to a blog on gurusfeet.com

Cleziact

hce said:

Trying to find the correct thoughts that will free you from ego is like trying to find the correct set of words to write on a chalkboard that will make the chalkboard erase. It just doesn't work that way.

i like this

andyrosebrook

A healthy ego can be a great thing to a certain point, in certain areas. Writing. Music. Any art. We'd all be silent monks with zero ego, I focus on eliminating the bad ego, the side of it that does harm to me and others.

MymaJyma

2na said:

I feel like I’m learning, everything is a little spiritual lesson if you are willing to listen.

^Isn't learning also feeding into the ego? So confused.

@hce This whole ego thing has had me very puzzled for a long time now. Like @andyrosebrook said, it seems like we need an ego on some level to straight out function. Why would we eat food, get up to turn on the light, read a book, etc. if we had completely eradicated the ego? Is any action whatsoever not ultimately feeding the ego? Maybe I should ask, what is the ego? I always think of it as anything that tells us that our existence is separate from everything else.

coffeeallday

I think it's important to be gentle with yourself when you catch your ego getting out of hand. I used to get angry that I was living in my ego but being gentle with your reaction is much more pleasant and positive.
I've come to appreciate my ego and when I'm stuck in it. Not being emotionally invested in your thoughts is super hard to do, but it does give an extreme sense of peace. Like when I'm judging someone: I'll realize I'm judging then turn it around and start appreciating that person's behavior instead of judging them. Try it.

gianni76

whats wrong with having a bit of a ego

andyrosebrook

"What's wrong with having an Eggo? With a bit of butter?"-Nigel Tufnel

ledhead999 · Post edited by ledhead999 at 2012-08-16 11:35:58

Everyone on this planet has a part of their mind that believes in ego. It's whole seeming existence is dependent on your mind's protection & recognition. The part of your mind that thinks & feels it's real is afraid of many things - none more than you remembering that ego is not real. So, it does everything it can to keep fear present in your mind in some form, preferably one you don't recognize as fear. This keeps you unaware of the truth - which isn't something physical. Ego projects the fear outside of you whenever it can w/ thoughts & feelings of blame, then it balances this w/in your mind as guilt.

The truth is... every loving thought & feeling you ever have is all that's ever real & true, everything else is an illusion - a judgment based on fear. Love is one, fear is legion.

Fear is an illusion, even though it can be experienced. Here we can experience both what is & what isn't true. This gives us the opportunity of deciding for ourselves what we want to be real & true - it ensures our wills are free. We decide w/ every thought & feeling we ever have.

This seeming choice is actually an illusion as well b/c the truth has already been decided. Free will only gives you the ability to accept or deny the truth that every loving thought & feeling is all that's ever true. You can deny it for as long as you want, while the decision still seems yours to make. Your decision determines your experience & you will always experience what you need to experience in order to help you change your mind.

Ego likes telling you what you should & shouldn't do. It either likes building you up, so it can tear you down again or it likes just keeping you down. Ego likes to try & keep your mind separate from any thoughts or feelings of what you truly are which is love. It can't do this completely & it can't do it w/o your consent. It will use any means necessary to trip you up & fool you into supporting what it wants, whether you're ever aware of it or not.

The biggest trick it seems to be pulling off is that you're the one doing it all to yourself.

It is possible to be aware of the thoughts & feelings of ego & not to listen to what they seem to be telling you. This does take some effort & vigilance on your part until your more aware. Once you become more aware & accept the truth of what you are w/o doubt, you'll realize it's all taking care of itself in time. This realization should take some of the pressure off your mind.

Save yourself some time & realize this sooner rather than later - worrying about it is all ego.

withMetta · Post edited by withMetta at 2012-08-16 11:47:36

@LDShaw Self-correction versus other-correction is like the difference between reaching for a cookie, while on a diet, then having the thought, "no, I shouldn't be eating this", versus having someone else slap your hand.

edit: Did you ever have a skinned knee as a child? I remember always hating to have to show it to adults because they would always touch or apply ointment in such a way that would cause me pain. Yet, I could hold it or apply ointment myself without causing myself pain. The ego is kind of like a skinned knee. You really almost have to be experiencing the ego yourself to know how to prod it properly without causing suffering.

hce

gianni76 said:
whats wrong with having a bit of a ego

Absolutely nothing.

Gubermensch

^Agreed

Embrace and let loose the ego. Obviously you can get in douchebag territory, best stay clear of that...

Not a fan of the ego-death on a pedestal movement. Ego is as destructive as it is responsible for most of what we appreciate.

hce · Post edited by hce at 2012-08-16 15:04:58

MymaJyma said:

2na said:

I feel like I’m learning, everything is a little spiritual lesson if you are willing to listen.

^Isn't learning also feeding into the ego? So confused.

@hce This whole ego thing has had me very puzzled for a long time now. Like @andyrosebrook said, it seems like we need an ego on some level to straight out function. Why would we eat food, get up to turn on the light, read a book, etc. if we had completely eradicated the ego? Is any action whatsoever not ultimately feeding the ego? Maybe I should ask, what is the ego? I always think of it as anything that tells us that our existence is separate from everything else.

Who's driving the car while you're lost in ego? Who is showering and washing your body while you're lost in ego? Who's brushing your teeth while you're lost in ego?

Have you ever asked "Why?" when suffering is absent?

"Why am I so happy right now?!"
"Why am I enjoying myself so much right now?!"
"Why is this sex so great?!"

Instead, it is the other way around. You're enjoying life and ego is saying "Shit, I have to go to work tomorrow" or it's telling you some other story and making you miserable.

Ego isn't driving the car. Ego is pressing the brakes on the car while life is pressing the gas pedal.

The car gets to its destination and ego says "See! Couldn't have done it without me!". Meanwhile it was pressing the brakes and complaining the entire trip.

You don't need ego. It's a walking stick and you hobble along with it but you're not crippled.

"Who's going to pay the bills?", ego says.

You don't control thoughts. You can't predict your next 3 thoughts. You can't even predict the next thought after the current thought.

You can only hold one thought in your head at a time if you're like most people. It's impossible for you to simultaneously hold the current thought while also predicting the next thought. The two cannot co-exist. You cannot predict your thoughts, you don't control them, why do you think they're you?

If you could control them, why not just say, "Ok, I'm going to stop thinking all anxious and fearful thoughts today. Only happy thoughts for me today!" ?

MymaJyma said:
Is any action whatsoever not ultimately feeding the ego? Maybe I should ask, what is the ego? I always think of it as anything that tells us that our existence is separate from everything else.

For the sake of this discussion, I'm going to say that ego is all self-referential thinking in the head. Anything that exists as informational input into the organism can be co-opted by ego.

If the ego can be fed, as you say, can it be starved?

What wants to get rid of the ego? Who or what is asking the question?

The thoughts are just passing by like clouds in a vast, empty sky.

ledhead999 · Post edited by ledhead999 at 2012-08-16 14:15:09

Gubermensch said:
Ego is as destructive as it is responsible for most of what we appreciate.

Ego likes for you to think that & since you can't kill what doesn't really exist - there is no need.

Gubermensch · Post edited by Gubermensch at 2012-08-16 14:35:47

Can you name anything that makes life enjoyable that isn't directly due to the gratification you recieve from interaction with the external world? Even thought and emotion are constructs and products of your perception and interaction with reality.

This ego-death idea is new-age nonsense.

You very may well be one facet of an infinite omniconsciousness, a singular godhead, what have you... but there's probably a reason you and seemingly all things experience reality from one perspective, an ego. It make's life mysterious, beautiful, chaotic, exciting, novel... why reject the beauty god* has graced you?

*non-ideological intention

orgone

@Gubermensch

Have you ever actually had an OBE, NDE, "ego-loss," or "born again" experience? Just trying to see what angle these comments are coming from. There is PLENTY of gratification that can be had without any external stimuli at all.

Gubermensch

But @LDShaw was talking douchebag-ego, and I'm unintentionally derailing the thread. Sorry :p

orgone · Post edited by orgone at 2012-08-16 14:42:37

@Gubermensch

It's fine, there's a lot of cross-talk in this thread, with some people calling ego some sense of pride or self-aggrandizement, while others are simply speaking about the executive function of the mind, the royal "I" and/or "The Biographer/Narrator" you can definitely lose these things temporarily, you'd better pray not permanently. The mind-states that attend the shutting down of one's mental governor are indeed profound and life changing. How else can you explain the Plastic Ono Band? :D

Gubermensch

I have. It's been a while. In that state I don't think gratification was possible. Nor discontent.

I was significantly redefined and abstract.

ledhead999 · Post edited by ledhead999 at 2012-08-16 15:21:27

Gubermensch said:
Can you name anything that makes life enjoyable that isn't directly due to the gratification you recieve from interaction with the external world? Even thought and emotion are constructs and products of your perception and interaction with reality.

This ego-death idea is new-age nonsense.

You very may well be one facet of an infinite omniconsciousness, a singular godhead, what have you... but there's probably a reason you and seemingly all things experience reality from one perspective, an ego. It make's life mysterious, beautiful, chaotic, exciting, novel... why reject the beauty god* has graced you?

*non-ideological intention

The ego is not the beauty god* has graced you w/ - that's spirit. The ego is our contribution to what was given to us for free & ego was made from our misperception of reality - it comes from fear based thoughts & feelings. We are all evolving away from this programming & conditioning that we all were taught. The sooner you accept this the sooner you can start experiencing the difference it makes - that doesn't mean you have to.

If every loving thought & feeling you have is all that's real & true - that is reality. It's a decision you can only make for yourself & not for anybody else. Since your will is as free as mine, you can disagree. Again, I'm not saying you have to perceive everything this way if you don't want to, I'm just saying it's to your advantage & even that you can disagree w/ if you want.

Life is still mysterious, beautiful, exciting, & novel - it's just less chaotic w/o all the bullshit ego seems to always want to introduce into the mix. You can still experience that chaos if you want b/c of the power your mind possesses. It's a decision & you never stop deciding.

Separating what is ego from what is spirit w/in you makes it less confusing & easier. The experience of doing this will prove what's best for you in time. You do get to decide the specifics b/c what you love could be totally different than what I love - though the thought & feeling is exactly the same.

Mr_Marijuana · Post edited by Mr_Marijuana at 2012-08-16 16:04:27

@hce thanks for the response!!! Much appreciated.

The reason I ask is because I'm in a transitional period of eliminating the negatives and replacing those with positives in all areas of my life, ie. giving more of self rather than not. Is all ego a bad thing? I admit to not having a full picture of the whole idea...

ledhead999 · Post edited by ledhead999 at 2012-08-16 16:05:13

Your ego is not going to like what you're attempting to do, though it will try to convince you that it doesn't mind. Ego isn't good or bad - it's nothing that only seems like something.

Mr_Marijuana

So if someone is somehow able to completely let go of their ego, does this person not think or feel then? Or are they able to look objectively at all things and not render judgement or opinion because there is no ego to even have deep thoughts on right or wrong anymore?

ledhead999

You won't be able to let the idea of the ego go completely while you're here - at least, not for an extended period of time. You've spent your whole life working on making it into something. The mind is free to think & feeling everything & anything - that's what ensures its freedom. It's more about being aware of those thoughts & feelings & not expressing them or acting on them & then forgiving yourself whenever you forget b/c you will forget. It's mind training. The more you worry about it the more you strengthen those thoughts & feelings & give them reality. Have them if they happen to come to mind, just recognize what they really are, which is nothing - unless you decide to make use of them.

Mr_Marijuana

@ledhead999
Thanks for confirming this. I came to the same conclusion about a year ago but wasn't sure if I was on the right track.

Does driving in L.A. count? Just trying to get home as fast as possible and avoiding drifters and people who signal left but turn right!!!

But seriously, that's all there is to it....?

ledhead999

Unless you want to make more out of nothing.

hce · Post edited by hce at 2012-08-16 17:08:26

Mr_Marijuana said:
@hce thanks for the response!!! Much appreciated.

The reason I ask is because I'm in a transitional period of eliminating the negatives and replacing those with positives in all areas of my life, ie. giving more of self rather than not. Is all ego a bad thing? I admit to not having a full picture of the whole idea...

There's some more ego talk over on this recent thread also.

I think the key to really understanding the movement of the ego is understanding the relationship between fear and identity/identification which we discussed a little bit on the thread I just linked.

What I found when I was working through this sort of ego-pruning process is that all of my fear and anxiety was basically because I had been an asshole, in one way or another, my entire life. Not intentionally, of course. I just had such an immense amount of self-referential thought activity that I had no awareness of how abrasive I was being to other people. I basically had "life sucks, I hate everybody" playing in my head on a loop every waking moment for over 20 years.

There were very few gaps or breaks in my self-referential narrative so I really had no clue about the wake of destruction I was leaving in my path. It's not that I was trying to be a jerk, I was just oblivious to it because I was always in my head worried about what other people were thinking and worried about how to portray an image to others that ran contrary to my internal dialogue that was saying, "Fuck this, fuck everybody, life sucks, I hate this, blah blah blah"

Just to give some frame of reference, my childhood environment was a 7/10 on this rating scale: ACE Calculator (PDF).

The reason I share this personal information is because when you're in that self-defeating talk mode, you think that's the only reality it is and that it's inescapable. Self-defeating talk is coming in so rapidly that it seems there is no alternative. People use their childhood and past history as excuses why an ego pruning "won't work" so I include my ACE score for some frame of reference. I made these types of excuses for many years before I saw what was going on.

It's like you're trying to do a math problem while Nick Diaz is relentlessly peppering your head and body with punches. The self-talk is coming in so loud and so rapidly that it's difficult to see what's going on. That's where things like mushrooms and DMT come in handy, not as tools of avoidance, but as tools to create some space around the self-talk and really begin to investigate what you actually are (or are not).

Gubermensch

Rigid labels reinforced with psuedo-intellectualism, crystals and cleverly disguised new-age ideology always top off my ego. :O

withMetta · Post edited by withMetta at 2012-08-16 19:57:28

@Gubermensch Ego death (as defined there) is a very real, very serious phenomena that had deep, profound, and painful psychological consequences for me. It took a very long time for the line between inside and outside to redraw itself, and even when it did I know in the fiber of my being that it doesn't and never has existed. That being said, it doesn't make you immune to being a cruel asshole.

Gubermensch · Post edited by Gubermensch at 2012-08-16 20:13:06

I believe it. I just don't understand why some demonize ego, which I see as individual identity.. who cares if it's an illusion. It feels good.

I'll return to the omniconsciousness we all spawned from in due time, I'm in no hurry.

I may be semanticizing (<- Epic made up word)... Maybe we all are :p. I've been multi-tasking all day, pardon the meh responses.

Jared

lego my ego.

withMetta

@Gubermensch

I believe it. I just don't understand why some demonize ego, which I see as individual identity.. who cares if it's an illusion. It feels good.

Because it feels like shit to be some people.

Gubermensch

@withMetta the ego? Alone. Just that?

withMetta

@Gubermensch

the ego? Alone. Just that?

I understood none of that.

YOU

Mr_Marijuana said:
So if someone is somehow able to completely let go of their ego, does this person not think or feel then? Or are they able to look objectively at all things and not render judgement or opinion because there is no ego to even have deep thoughts on right or wrong anymore?

Here's an interview with a guy who stopped thinking:

And here he is not thinking:

ledhead999

The idea of perfection would have to include the ability to make mistakes & be forgiven for making them, otherwise, the experience would be limited.

Youngonzalez

I find when i start to drink i start to let my ego go wild. Which is never a good thing, maybe its just my way of showing my frustrations i get mouthy pretty much haha only to people who know i'm joking though big difference in doing it to someone who's a complete stranger.

hainesworld1

All it takes to get rid of ego is to be totally present in the now, as ego is a structure that is based from memories that are obviously from the past.

Gubermensch

@withMetta

I said ego, regardless of it's illusory nature, was worth embracing.

You said it wasn't for some because it felt like shit. Not sure of your reasoning there.... You attribute feeling like shit solely to the ego, not the numerous, specific variables that contribute.

This convo (Not with you specifically) feels like a hamster wheel.

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