Any Practicing Chaos Magicians Out There?
  • SIOSSIOS
    Hrair
    Been reading about magical systems for quite a few years (everything from Crowley to chaos to voodoo, etc) and feel like I'm at the point in my life where I'm going to start actually practicing. Are there any other practicing/potential magicians on the forum? What are some of the systems you enjoy working in? Would anyone be interested in starting an online "Family Magical Fraternity" of some sort? Love to hear from ya'll!
    Tuning in and dropping out, dancing Buddhas twist and shout!
  • I'm completely unfamiliar with this. What does this magic accomplish? Is it basically just a ritual thing, or do you actually feel as though you're tapping into some kind of supernatural energy?
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    Magic works on those withing sensory range of the ritual @Causarius. What you want to do must be determined before the how to do it.

    I mean, no, what are you talking about chaos magjickx?
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  • Ive been meaning to start trying some of this stuff, not sure were or how to start
    こたえは いつも 私のむねに。
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    General nonsense about magic:

    Magic is the science of the subjective. Just as experimental empiricism is the science of the objective, the magician is trying to map the territory and discover the rules of the subjective world.

    I don't believe in shooting energy beams at people across continents, through prayer or spell. If you're not there I don't think a ritual can work on you. Most rituals center around creating an impressive and memorable scenario, then implanting information and/or instruction to those involved in the scenario. All this is vague of course because the energetic tone of the ritual , the person(s) involved, and the intention of the magician all change the nuts-and-bolts of the ritual drastically.

    There's more than one way to sacrifice a cat!
    image
  • I have been researching and starting to practice here and there.

    So far with my limited experience I would recommend to anyone wanting to investigate the occult and magic first work on meditation/relaxation and look into Book 4 by Aleister Crowley, Condensed Chaos by Phil Hine, and The Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo DuQuette. The last book there has really given me some veil-rending experiences recently. I very strongly recommend it. In any magical field I think that understanding of Qabalah is invaluable.

    Update: Not necessarily Chaos Magic oriented but a good podcast on starting a daily Regimen


    Post edited by Capricus at 2012-07-23 01:32:09
  • SIOSSIOS
    Hrair
    Brief rundown on chaos magic:

    When people practice more traditional forms of magic (hermeticism, folk magic, divination, etc) they are usually following a particular paradigm/set of rules that have been constructed for that particular tradition. What magic words to use, what pieces of ritual paraphernalia you should have, which gods to invoke. That sorta stuff. These are usually dependent on what culture/country/time period/religion these traditions were created in. Many magicians over the last 100 years or so though have figured out that it really doesn't matter which form of ritual you're performing (even if it's one you've completely made up yourself), as long as it gets you to a state of "gnosis" (in chaos magic, this is similar to zen kinda). Once there, you can perform your working. Whatever gets you there whether it's chanting to drumming to drugs to fucking, it's all up for grabs (seeing as all of these things have been used throughout time and seem to work pretty well)! The fun part about chaos magic in particular is that you can create your own rituals and see if they're effective. Want to connect with A love deity? Aphrodite or one of the care bears would work great! It's whatever works for you. A few google searches can probably explain a little better than me though. @Capricus I'm actually currently reading Condensed Chaos. Liber Null and Psychonaut by Peter Carroll are good too!
    Tuning in and dropping out, dancing Buddhas twist and shout!
  • @SIOS Nice, I enjoyed Liber Null as well and there are some really interesting essays in Psychonaut.
  • SIOSSIOS
    Hrair
    Guess what I was thinking about was creating a sub-community of would be magicians, all learning and experimenting with magic together, maybe getting tips from more experienced magus', and maybe even doing something like the Book Club but with books on magic. The reasons I thought this would be fun are 1.Im just really interested in chaos magic and think some group participation might help and 2. I think the Trussellverse could benefit from an army of digital chaos sorcerers. Who's in?!
    Post edited by SIOS at 2012-07-23 06:17:11
    Tuning in and dropping out, dancing Buddhas twist and shout!
  • I've charged a few sigils, can't really speak to their efficacy as I didn't set really specific enough intent. really just an excuse to beat off (as if I need one)
  • im in favor of a DTFH magical fraternity
    こたえは いつも 私のむねに。
  • The only thing worth doing is that which I can do by will alone... everything else is just passing time. (*)
  • You know it works when a lion comes into your bedroom at night and talks to you.

    I thought about making a sigil before, but I just never did. I've always liked reading about magick but never felt any desire to practice it.
    "Say my name three times and I'll appear and hold your balls." --Duncan
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.

    Without a strong focus and ability to direct the mind, magick is utterly useless (or it seems to me at least)


    Joseph said:

    I've always liked reading about magick but never felt any desire to practice it.



    My problem is I don't know what human beings do that is useful; and yeah practicing magic is tethered to your personal motivations, I don't have many. :)

    Post edited by orgone at 2012-07-23 13:58:31
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  • As an addendum to my last post, I'm not really sure what I think of the Chaos Magick movement just yet. Its not that I disagree with the philosophy, but that it seems to attract a lot of slackers that are drawn to it because it seems to say its ok to skip the work (development of one's power of focus by different training methods) and just jump right into magickal acts.

    Without a strong focus and ability to direct the mind, magick is utterly useless (or it seems to me at least)



    I have similar feelings. When I first started investigating magic, Chaos Magic was attractive because it seemed to cut out the wall of jargon and complexity that are around most occult systems, but I did not really start getting the results in my consciousness till I started working with a more ground-up approach.

    I do think that there are a lot of benefits to Chaos Magic, but it requires a lot of development to make use of its tools.
  • Capricus said:

    As an addendum to my last post, I'm not really sure what I think of the Chaos Magick movement just yet. Its not that I disagree with the philosophy, but that it seems to attract a lot of slackers that are drawn to it because it seems to say its ok to skip the work (development of one's power of focus by different training methods) and just jump right into magickal acts.

    Without a strong focus and ability to direct the mind, magick is utterly useless (or it seems to me at least)



    I have similar feelings. When I first started investigating magic, Chaos Magic was attractive because it seemed to cut out the wall of jargon and complexity that are around most occult systems, but I did not really start getting the results in my consciousness till I started working with a more ground-up approach.

    I do think that there are a lot of benefits to Chaos Magic, but it requires a lot of development to make use of its tools.


    That is what I feel about it to a degree as well. I thought Liber Null (or whichever one it was) was great in that it had that initial foundations listing techniques to get into trance to do the stuff. Kind of like the Book 4 writings Crowley did in regards to yoga. As in control your body, breath mind etc. He just added in some other things people do to reach trance like states.

    I never really got into the Sigil stuff though because I guess I don't get why I should personally. Great I can do some Sigil for whatever little thing? Not saying all users of the method do it, but a lot of it just seemed pointless and petty. I can fake it till I make it in other fashions to get a job or whatever else instead of writing a little doodle and "sending it out there".

    But I really do love the general philosophy of using belief as a tool in general ways much like our patron Saint RAW (:P) would say. Although I don't do "magick" rituals technically speaking (I just kind of feel silly) I think it serves me well when exploring new avenues of thought whether it be Magick, or Drugs, or meditation or yoga or Gurdjeff or NLP or whatever combinations of any/all of them and other things.
  • Derp.
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    Magic is a series of franchises. k-os majik™ is starting your own business. I think statistically you break even on % chance of failure of starting a new business vs association fees as a franchisee. Some people just feel more comfortable with an established model.
    Post edited by orgone at 2012-07-25 13:06:08
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  • Derp.




    Gotta be one of the worst words to ever arise as a form of response


    Yet quite applicable in the right context!

  • edited
    Post edited by JahRags at 2012-08-01 03:47:08
    http://pinealretina.tumblr.com - Get your bottle homie, po' some out.
  • im in favor of a DTFH magical fraternity




    image

    I am very interested. I humbly suggest the name Fraternitatis Magicae DTFH, and hope it is to your liking. The constitution of the fraternity might need its own thread, seeing as this one seems to have been intended for a more general discussion.
    http://pinealretina.tumblr.com - Get your bottle homie, po' some out.
  • I've had mixed results with sigil magick.
  • orgone said:

    Magic is a series of franchises. k-os majik™ is starting your own business. I think statistically you break even on % chance of failure of starting a new business vs association fees as a franchisee. Some people just feel more comfortable with an established model.



    And what about the fact that chaos magick is simply a hodge podge of these established models, and uses the same principles built from these previous systems? What if one applies the philosophy of chaos magick without subscribing to the label of chaos magician? Are they still an independent business man, or some kind of street hustler?



    Exactly. That's the beauty of chaos magick. You can work with pre-existing models, create your own, or combine methods. There are no limits to hacking this reality and your mind.
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.

    And what about the fact that chaos magick is simply a hodge podge of these established models, and uses the same principles built from these previous systems?



    And what about this fact? You have to tell me your personal values, I don't understand what you're trying to convey other than that you personally find this problematic. I don't understand how this is material to the discussion.

    What if one applies the philosophy of chaos magick without subscribing to the label of chaos magician? Are they still an independent business man, or some kind of street hustler?



    A little of both, depending on intent. The established systems are just guys playing long-con vs short confidence scam operators. Unless you know somereal magic enlightened one. Some people just don't want to bother getting taking in with the cultural and karmic inertia of an existing system Tarot to Tai Chi.

    You're talking to someone who has a VERY simple understanding of things, you do remember, maestro? Any answer I give must, by logic, be worthless information to someone of your degree of erudition.

    QED
    Post edited by orgone at 2012-08-01 22:29:17
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  • I've been pretty half-assed about it, would love a community to practice with
  • maybe we can even get on Skype and "charge some sigils" together if you know what I mean... ;)
  • @Fuji_M0T0, you are very welcome to participate in the creation of the community you seek: Constitution of Fraternatis Magicae DTFH

    Post edited by JahRags at 2012-08-02 09:10:10
    http://pinealretina.tumblr.com - Get your bottle homie, po' some out.
  • Okey. As of now, my occult reading list consists of the following books:

    Book Four - Crowley
    Condensed Chaos - Phil Hine
    The Chicken Qabalah - Lon Milo DuQuette
    Psychonaut (1981), Liber Null (1978) Peter J. Carroll

    Does that sound about right?
    http://pinealretina.tumblr.com - Get your bottle homie, po' some out.
  • Not adequate. Spend more money on questionable reading material.
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    @LucemPortabo

    It seems you're challenging the "legitimacy" of chaos magic, you want me to challenge your challenge? Say chaos magic is rubbish, why not bother, why bother not bothering, a why bother to bother. You're questioning the virginity of a prostitute.

    You are presuming to know the concepts based on a chaos magician's practice in abstract, meditate on that for a minute. You are presuming they're using some system that makes sense at all.

    Some people like roads, other people like making roads. Stay on your road. The sum of your criticism seems to be "but this is not how I like to do things personally," and about that no one cares. No more than you care about the basis of someone chaos magical practice, or if it's consistent with ideas that make sense to you as an individual.

    If you're looking for a one sentence summary or a theoretical kernel from which a myriad of consistent thoughts spring you are in the wrong thread sir.
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  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    My apologies I didn't realize you were writing a biography making and ad hominem remarks about people not on the forum. I'll read more carefully next time.
    image
  • So here's a wildly imperfect analogy to illustrate my feeling/understanding of Western High Ritual Magic (Golden Dawn type stuff) vs Chaos Magic (Illuminates of Thanateros type stuff):

    You want to make music. You don't really understand it, how it works, how to use the tools, what knowledge is required, but damnit you want to make some MUSIC.

    At one end of polarity is a music conservatory; You pay exorbitant money for a fine instrument, you have instructors with years of experience, a specific tradition and way of working that you're taught. You may excel in this tradition, making music that is of a very high standard according to this specific way of working (western classical sound different from chinese classical, uses different instruments and notation, etc). The downside, sometimes, is that some (many?) students never learn how to operate outside the conventions they've learned. developing your own "voice" on an instrument can be hindered by learning in the voices of others if one isn't careful to truly understand an assimilate the info. Flexibility and creativity may be sacrificed for the
    perceived reliability of established techniques. TL;DR you might get good at playing THAT style of music, but fail to develope your OWN style.

    Theother end of the polarity os the self-taught punk rock style musician: You have fewer resources, so perhaps your instrument is shitty. You learn mostly by ear or anecdotally, probably with no real "teacher" other than trial and error and your own tastes. You are possibly more likely to develope your own idiosyncrasies and techniques, which may be effective for you, but may not be the MOST effective way to do A Thing. The lack of a grounded, tested tradition or "school" as a starting point can mean it takes one longer to learn effective techniques, if effective techniques are learned at all. Efficacy and completeness of technique/system may be sacrificed due to lack of knowledge/availability, or simply because the freeform style gets results that seems to satisfy. TL;DR You may get good at "your thing" and have no idea that "your thing" isn't terribly useful or effective.

    Soooo...how much do you trust your research? :)

    IMHO, which does seem to be shared by many other cranks and witch doctors, we all live in our own tiny universe created by our senses and the interpretation of their input. This CAN be manipulated at will though, and the effects on "objective reality" can be real and measurable. What those effects are is variable and highly subjective....LIKE THE REST OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

    Joseph Campbell is the first dude I read that compared the psyche to a computer, saying that he felt religions were operating systems for the spiritual side of humans. Maybe you're a Mac. Maybe you're a Windows PC (for some reason). Maybe you run Linux. Maybe you dual-boot and run two OS's on one machine. IT CAN GET ZANY PEOPLE. "othing is true and everything is permitted", so sayeth some guy some time long ago in a cloud of smoke.

    SO: Does Chaos Magick "work" better or worse than Western High Ritual Magick or Santeria or Voudon or whatever? Depends on how you format your hard drive.

    /feelings

    Facebook is the landline of the 21st Century.
    queenwolf.bandcamp.com
  • ^ Loving this analogy.
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    I wonder if anyone will perform a chaos ritual in the forum today??
    image
  • @Capricus, I never thanked you properly for introducing me to the Speech in the silence podcast. I just finished listening to all of the episodes back to back. Magnificent stuff.

    Thank you.
    http://pinealretina.tumblr.com - Get your bottle homie, po' some out.
  • I'm reading Liber Derpus at the moment.

    In order to obtain this magickal text you must copy all of the words in this thread and run them through the following Google translations: English to German to Egyptian to Latin to Chinese back to English to French to Tagalog to English.

    To make sigils simply cut whatever text you need from Liber Derpus, paste it into MS Word, select all and change the font to Wingdings.

    To activate the sigil, print it out, cover the page with semen and then place in the microwave for three minutes.

    It can smell kind of funny, but it's very powerful. Be careful!
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    ^ I can verify everything this man is saying is true.... but can YOU??
    image
  • Chaos magick/ sigil magick is the form of magic that always in the end has gotten results for me. here's the last success story:

    I had not smoked cannabis in a couple of years and I decided to try to see how fast/ or if i could at all manifest it in my life by making up my own chaos-sigil mantra.

    The mantra that I made was " brach sjing" first word like the composer Bach and the second word sounds like sing but with a J

    Repeated this mantra for a couple of days, then i forgot about it.

    And as it happen, in weird and syncronous ways, it appeared, and I consider it still unfolding.

    Post edited by abramelin at 2012-09-15 11:48:56
    The secret is: the law of action - if you actually do shit, stuff happens
  • I recently started messing around w/ tarot cards again.
    Post edited by ledhead999 at 2012-09-24 19:33:20
    The only thing worth doing is that which I can do by will alone... everything else is just passing time. (*)
  • I don't use this spread, but it's a good way to get to know the cards...
    http://www.fourthdimension.net/thoth/

    Here's a couple other sources for info...
    http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-thoth/
    http://www.corax.com/tarot/cards/index.html
    Post edited by ledhead999 at 2012-09-15 14:35:12
    The only thing worth doing is that which I can do by will alone... everything else is just passing time. (*)
  • I just recently picked up my first tarot deck ( also the Crowley version) and its a damn beautiful piece of art. i dont really know what to do with it but i quite like the idea of using a card as a focus of meditation.
    こたえは いつも 私のむねに。
  • Phil Hine on Chaos Magick... Interesting and its funny too...


  • @mage_slayer420

    tarotcards are really good for that purpose.

    try going through the major arcana and start at 5 mins first, its suprisning how issues and syncronicities related to the card start to unfold during the day.
    Can be intense with the " darker cards" so remember to start with about 5 mins.
    there is a kind of invoking of the powers represented in the card when used in this way.

    The secret is: the law of action - if you actually do shit, stuff happens
  • This seems to me like it could me considered as a mandatory watch: the disinfospeach from one of the most famous chaosmagicians out there


    The secret is: the law of action - if you actually do shit, stuff happens
  • orgoneorgone
    I'm a Troll. Don't Feed Me.
    image

    I use my M:tA cyberpunk-themed deck. It works but its like the I-Ching, the power is in the practitioners intuitive sense.
    image
  • Never fails if you know how best to interpret the cards.
    The only thing worth doing is that which I can do by will alone... everything else is just passing time. (*)
  • For those who want to charge up a Chaos- sigil with a method of combined ceremonial magick/ chaos magick

    Gets really powerful

    Have a sigil ready and keep it within the circle

    Begin by a banishment
    LBRP ( and a LBRH if you feel the need)

    Summon up magical energy
    Do a Lesser Invoking ritual of the pentagram

    now within the circle add the charge and fire off the sigil into the astral planes by a method of your choosing.

    Fap fap fap while intensly fokusing on the sigil works very well.

    after sigil is fired off

    do banishment again

    destroy sigil and go on with your day.


    This method has worked very well for me

    The secret is: the law of action - if you actually do shit, stuff happens
  • Thank you again, @abramelin

    When it comes to practicing chaos magic for personal gain, are there reasons not to go for the obvious money/sex/power? I mean, I guess "power" could be negative, but I don't mean it in a dominating sense, more like personal empowerment or whatever.
    http://pinealretina.tumblr.com - Get your bottle homie, po' some out.
  • @JahRags

    when it comes to sigil magick I have heard and experienced myself that the "results" also comes with a life lesson.

    I have used sigil magick for money, but at the time I was really really desparate, I had no money for food or rent. I was conteplating bad things. the weird and amazing results and the whole situation was now in hindsight a initiatory experience.

    I only got exactly what I needed, nothing more, nothing less. I have done financial magick after that, but boy did I have to work my ass of to get it. If you do some financial magick the results often comes in a increased time at work.

    I dont see anything bad with love magic if you dont direct it at someone in particular, it just seems like you are at the right place at the right time for meeting someone who would enjoy the activities with you. Here I have also noticed that there is a learning experience attatched to the results.

    When it comes to empowering yourself I think that is a very positive form of magic.

    Look at Duncan and Rogan, they are imo two very selfempowered persons.

    Having faith in oneself and not be affected by all the black magick directed att the masses is at core one of the most important task as a human.

    these are my opinions

    // abramelin





    The secret is: the law of action - if you actually do shit, stuff happens
  • So here's a condensed funny story about sigils.

    I had not done anything related to magick for at least 2 years. As I started to get involved in study again this past May, the urge to practice followed, and so I did a sigil/spell/working to make myself a more successful producer/engineer, just as an experiment. The formulation of the intent was a bit more specific than that, but true to instruction, I've forgotten the exact wording.

    A week after casting this, I had my car full of recording gear pulled up outside a rehearsal space, waiting for the band to arrive (I have a 16 tracks-at-once digital recording rig that fits in my hatchback, mics and all). The rehearsal studio looks like an abandoned wharehouse from outside, so as to dissuade curiosity. As I'm standing there waiting, I see a man emerge from the abandoned-looking wharehouse next door. He walks right up to me....no one else is on the street...and strikes up a conversation.

    him- "you play in a band?"
    me- "yeah, but not here. i'm recording a band here today."
    him- "oooh, you're an engineer? you know, i have this studio next door with no engineer, maybe you'd like to come take a look..."

    Turns out he has a recording studio, a nightclub, and a bar built int his wharehouse, along with a bunch of other stuff....all hidden in this derelict-looking wharehouse. So a man walked up to me on the street and gave me a fully functioning studio space to work in after I "did Magick". Are they related? To quote Robert Anton Wilson: "Maybe."

    Here's the real point of the story. By August I'd done some jobs there and realized that, as cool as having a "professional studio" to work in can be, the costs and inconveniences of being in someone else's facility proved prohibitive in a way I did not like. The experience did, indeed, up my engineering game. The profile of suddenly having a studio raised people's awareness of my work and increased demand. While I'm not working out of that studio now, the experience has led to a doubling of bookings and a doubling in the fee I can command.

    TL;DR It rarely works the way you'd expect, so allow for the weirdness of the universe to manifest when getting your Mage on.
    Facebook is the landline of the 21st Century.
    queenwolf.bandcamp.com

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