Free market / Anti-Capitalism / Voluntaryist Economic Books?
  • does anyone have a suggestion for a sort of free market, anti-capitalist economics book?

    basically, i'm looking for something to support my assumptions, projected desires, and minimal knowledge (although I do have an MBA) of how everything works now and what the economics of a utopian society would look like.

    no, i don't want to read Smith/Hume/Ricardo etc... that was fucking 300 years ago. something that is not all new-agey and esoteric or riddled with conspiracy-theory.

    thanks, fellow explorers of alien game-show drama.
    Post edited by fnord at 2012-04-18 13:06:39
    sunt lacrimae rerum
  • I am also a fan of "the best that money can't buy" by Fresco
  • sunt lacrimae rerum
  • I'm skeptical of projects like the Venus Project that call for radical "redesigns" of society, and doing away with money - though I am very sympathetic to the motives and cultural ills that give rise to them. I may be misinterpreting, but the Venus Project seems that in practice it will require of class of technocrats to make it work - so wouldn't we just be replacing one artificial hierarchy with another?
    Post edited by jimmybob at 2012-04-18 11:24:24
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Charles Eisenstein
    Sacred Economics

    Murray Rothbard
    Amazon author page

    What do you mean by free market AND anti-capitalist book?
    Only Charles Eisenstein kinda fits that.. maybe?
    Post edited by Andy_Sunpopper at 2012-04-18 11:19:56
  • For an understanding money I highly recommend What has Government Done to Our Money? by Murray Rothbard. It's a short but dense book and you'll be light years ahead of most of the populous if you consume this book. Money is the one variable that touches almost all economic transactions - so once you get a grasp of what money is, the history of money, how it is manipulated, etc. you will be ahead of the game in understanding economics in general. It's a subject that is needlessly mystified and vilified.

    PDF
    http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

    Audiobook
    http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=92?afid=21

    image
    Post edited by jimmybob at 2012-04-18 12:21:50
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • For free-market anti-capitalism, or mutualism, Kevin Carson comes to the front as must read thinkers:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carson

    http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html

    image
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Charles Eisenstein
    Sacred Economics



    I second this recommendation!
    If you see Buddha on the forum, ban him.
  • Also check out the Center for a Stateless Society. They have a lot of great articles on various subjects related to economics and the state. There are a number of good contributors, but particularly check out Brad Spangler and Kevin Carson.

    http://c4ss.org/
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Another MUST read work in Voluntaryism is Rothbard's For a New Liberty:

    PDF
    http://mises.org/books/newliberty.pdf

    Audiobook
    http://mises.org/media/category/87/For-a-New-Liberty

    image
    Post edited by jimmybob at 2012-04-18 12:20:30
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • I'm also a fan of Stefan Molyneux. He has a ton of free podcasts and books.

    The podcast is Freedomain Radio - just start with #1 and work your way up. I'd recommend going in order for at least the first couple hundred (there's over 1500).

    http://www.freedomainradio.com/Podcasts.aspx

    I like all of his books but regarding anarchism/voluntaryism Everyday Anarchy and Practical Anarchy come to mind. All books are available as free PDF's and free audiobooks on his site:

    http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • jimmybob said:

    For free-market anti-capitalism, or mutualism, Kevin Carson comes to the front as must read thinkers:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carson

    http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html



    Cool! I didn't get what was meant by anti-capitalism and free market. I guess my idea of what capitalism is - or should be rather - isn't what it is historically.
    Post edited by Andy_Sunpopper at 2012-04-18 12:55:20
  • Stefan Molyneux is great!

    I get all teary-eyed and emotional when he talks about how much he enjoys raising his daughter... and all his experiences with it.

    Peaceful, responsible parenting is the only way out of this mess imo. (I'm only 23, so I should stfu now).
  • jeeebus christ i wish i could just download all of this shit into my brain.

    i don't know where to start...
    sunt lacrimae rerum
  • I'll be 70 by the time I finish reading all the books in my reading list.
  • orgoneorgone
    Vampire
    jimmybob said:

    I'm skeptical of projects like the Venus Project that call for radical "redesigns" of society, and doing away with money - though I am very sympathetic to the motives and cultural ills that give rise to them. I may be misinterpreting, but the Venus Project seems that in practice it will require of class of technocrats to make it work - so wouldn't we just be replacing one artificial hierarchy with another?



    Oh no, he actually figured out what the "Zeitgeist Movement" is trying to do!!!
    image
  • orgone said:

    jimmybob said:

    I'm skeptical of projects like the Venus Project that call for radical "redesigns" of society, and doing away with money - though I am very sympathetic to the motives and cultural ills that give rise to them. I may be misinterpreting, but the Venus Project seems that in practice it will require of class of technocrats to make it work - so wouldn't we just be replacing one artificial hierarchy with another?



    Oh no, he actually figured out what the "Zeitgeist Movement" is trying to do!!!


    Say wha?
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • orgoneorgone
    Vampire
    jimmybob said:

    Say wha?



    The people who made the Zeitgeist movies are a part of the problem they are claiming to expose, "Externalization of the Hierarchy" sir.
    image
  • orgone said:

    jimmybob said:

    Say wha?



    The people who made the Zeitgeist movies are a part of the problem they are claiming to expose, "Externalization of the Hierarchy" sir.


    Oh...yep! I couldn't tell if you were being serious or sarcastic, haha. Yes I agree with you. I started the reading the Jasque Fresco book linked above and it seems like classic central planning, scientism, and technocracy. Any attempt at bringing something like this to reality on a large scale would result in great human rights catastrophes and leave a trail of tears behind bigger than the problem it was trying to fix.

    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • I deleted the Fresco book suggestion cause it seems to be hurting people.
    If you see Buddha on the forum, ban him.
  • KHAN said:

    I deleted the Fresco book suggestion cause it seems to be hurting people.



    Do you say that because we disagreed with it? Analyzing and finding fault is not the same as simply being hurt or knee-jerkingly rejecting. I think it's a worthy contribution to the thread even if I disagree with it. The marketplace of ideas- let the best ones win. I'd rather you see you defend it than withdraw.
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • I don't share your "The marketplace of ideas- let the best ones win" approach.

    I took it down because I no longer wish to recommend it.
    Post edited by KHAN at 2012-04-18 17:41:12
    If you see Buddha on the forum, ban him.
  • Fair enough. No love lost.

    If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by not sharing that approach? I merely meant there a lot of different views out there and it's important to be open to differing viewpoints - and in the end we all have to analyze them on their own merits and incorporate what we best think fits reality/the truth into our basket of mental goodies. You disagree with that or were you saying you simply don't wish to debate the merits of that book?
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • I don't wish to debate them here.

    If there were threads to discuss specific economic ideas I might contribute to the discussion. As far as I am concerned this is a thread about book recommendations.
    Post edited by KHAN at 2012-04-19 12:23:27
    If you see Buddha on the forum, ban him.
  • KHAN said:


    Good Sweetness, Broskeim. My family is resourceful.
    Love is what occurs when the universe recognizes itself for what it is.
    owlsa support waned RIP orgone
  • KHAN said:

    I don't wish to debate them here.

    If there were threads to discuss specific economic ideas I might contribute to discussion. As for as I am concerned this is a thread about book recommendations.



    10-4 man! All good in da hood.
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • fnord said:

    jeeebus christ i wish i could just download all of this shit into my brain.

    i don't know where to start...


    Personally, I'd start with For a New Liberty or What has Government Done to Our Money for books. And then also start working your way through the Freedomainradio podcasts from #1.

    There's SO much out there and the topic is way deep with many tentacles.
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Another power house is Carl Watner. His site is http://www.voluntaryist.com/

    "Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends."

    I Must Speak Out is an anthology of voluntaryist articles:

    http://www.voluntaryist.com/voluntaryist.pdf
    Post edited by jimmybob at 2012-04-18 22:14:10
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Second Rothbard. Albert Jay Nock, Frank Chodorov, and Han-Hermann Hoppe are other great authors in this arena. I don't really have specific book recommendations from them, other than Our Enemy, The State by Nock. Read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises if you haven't already.

    There are TONS of free ebooks at the Mises Institute website; in fact, almost every book mentioned so far in this thread is there for free. There is enough free stuff there to keep you busy for years.
    एकम् सत् विप्राः बहुधा वदन्ति
    That which exists is One, but sages call it by various names.
  • Krishna said:

    Second Rothbard. Albert Jay Nock, Frank Chodorov, and Han-Hermann Hoppe are other great authors in this arena. I don't really have specific book recommendations from them, other than Our Enemy, The State by Nock. Read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises if you haven't already.

    There are TONS of free ebooks at the Mises Institute website; in fact, almost every book mentioned so far in this thread is there for free. There is enough free stuff there to keep you busy for years.



    Holy shit, how could I forget Albert J Nock and Our Enemy, the State?! One of my favorite books of all time.

    And yes to all the others you suggested. Human Action is a scary beast - got part of the way through the audiobook so far. Whew.

    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Tom Woods is my homeboy
  • ladychef said:

    jimmybob said:

    And then also start working your way through the Freedomainradio podcasts from #1.



    Wow- this seems like an obsession waiting to happen...I don't know whether to thank you for recommending it or not....If you haven't heard from me in a week or two, please send someone down the rabbit hole to look for me...

    It's a worthy obsession. It's a fascinating podcast - he covers everything from economics, to art, to psychology, relationships, parenting, anarchism, etc.

    I listened to the first 650 or so in a row straight through.

    Enjoy.
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • Tom Woods is my homeboy



    Yes!
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • I second (or third?) Stephan! He has 1000s of great podcasts about a variety of subjects. I believe he actually talks about "vampires" in some of his talks about family.

    I'd love to expose Duncan to his work and get the two of them talking!

    I know it's not a book but check out: http://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot/featured

    He has a bunch of books available at his website: http://www.freedomainradio.com/
    Jason Castillo
    Blog: www.Castilloillustration.com
    Twitter: @jasoncastillo
  • basically, i'm looking for something to support my assumptions, projected desires, and minimal knowledge


    This is kind of a bad place to start. If I was you, I'd be looking for strong arguments against what you believe and then build from there.

    This isn't an attack, it comes from a place of love. I was given the same advice and it changed everything for me.

    In the spirit of the rest of the thread's general helpfulness:

    Slow Money by Woody Tasch is a great read and the techniques are not utopian, they are possible.

    Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard (Patagonia) is an inspirational read.

    Raising the Bar by Gary Erickson (Clif Bar) is a guide to how to handle a hostile takeover.

    I'd highly recommend emailing CEOs of companies you respect. You'll be amazed at how many will respond to you. I'm batting a thousand and I went pretty big.
  • fnordfnord
    Hrair
    i was sorta joking regarding the "supporting assumptions, projected desires, minimal knowledge" bit... i have an MBA and took six economics classes in college - everything from basic Micro/Macro Econ to the History of US Economics - so i've got the "straight" perspective of it down pat.

    but yeah, i agree with what you're saying completely. thanks for the suggestions. CEOs seem to be great at being charismatic and masters of the current zero-sum game, but i'm looking for alternatives to this dystopian nightmare that we're living. my assumptions are that my view of "utopia" only works in the very small scale (ever hear of the Dunbar number?) and with nation states in the way, i'm pessimistic about things reversing direction for the better.
    sunt lacrimae rerum
  • Well, the key to utopia is remembering that it basically means "no place". Scale doesn't really matter.

    It seems to me that what you're looking for is an ethics system that can be mobilized for financial and political purposes.

    I think the best thing for here and now is to take your psychedelic leanings into the belly of the beast and use your MBA skills to start a business or run one the way you think it should be run.

    There are a ton of people out there like you and they're just starting to come together.



  • Also, I think these great links above will pretty much be taking over my evenings.

    I needed another podcast obsession like I need a whole in the head.
  • fnordfnord
    Hrair

    I think the best thing for here and now is to take your psychedelic leanings into the belly of the beast and use your MBA skills to start a business or run one the way you think it should be run.

    There are a ton of people out there like you and they're just starting to come together.



    right on. this is something i've been trying to figure out for quite some time; how to fuse my psychonaut egalitarianism with my traditional business education and experience, creating a model of sustainability for myself while simultaneously doing something beneficial for humanity. you know, rather than exploiting others for personal gain?

    fuck. what is IT?
    sunt lacrimae rerum
  • fnord said:

    I think the best thing for here and now is to take your psychedelic leanings into the belly of the beast and use your MBA skills to start a business or run one the way you think it should be run.

    There are a ton of people out there like you and they're just starting to come together.



    right on. this is something i've been trying to figure out for quite some time; how to fuse my psychonaut egalitarianism with my traditional business education and experience, creating a model of sustainability for myself while simultaneously doing something beneficial for humanity. you know, rather than exploiting others for personal gain?

    fuck. what is IT?


    We sound like we have a lot in common @fnord.
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • fnordfnord
    Hrair
    oh, you be fuckin' bitches and smokin rocks too?

    hehe
    Post edited by fnord at 2012-05-02 09:17:22
    sunt lacrimae rerum
  • image
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there." Rumi
  • 23 things they dont tell you about capitalism by ha-joon chang
    The Head Apollo is about to return.
    St Sophia is going to be born again; she was not acceptable before.
    Siddhartha sleeps (but is going to awaken). The time you have waited for has come.

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